Topic: for supporting different language structure...

Hello, first of all I appreciate your work - punbb. I like it. and have tested in my computer.
I tried to make a Korean translation and found it may be differcult for the language structure. for instance, we can see the same code like this:

$perms = $lang_index['You'].' <b>'.$lang_index['can'].'</b> '.$lang_index['post replies'].'<br>'.... 

but Korean language structure is a little different from english and some other languages which have the same structure. As to Korean style 'can' or 'cannot' should be the last word. I think it will be not just a Korean problem, it'll be also other language problem.

So, the best method when we support other language more perfect, it should be like a sentence. so In my opinion the upper code should be

$perms = $lang_index['can_post_replies'].'<br>'...

Could you consider this problem and make a little change for this?:)

2

Re: for supporting different language structure...

Interesting. I wonder why this hasn't come up before. Perhaps somebody who has made a language pack, particularly in an Asian language, would like to comment. Having thought about it some more, if you are assembling a sentence from individual words or phrases in a particular order, isn't it bound to cause problems in translation.

One thing, it is possible (though not encouraged) to put mark-up in the language files. Adopting your solution and guessing at the Korean word order the entry in the language file would be
'Post replies you <strong>can</strong>'
The English version would be
'You <strong>can</strong> post replies'

3 (edited by jacobswell 2004-05-02 18:22)

Re: for supporting different language structure...

hmm, Ya. partly right. that can be a litteral translation but that can't be a good translation. wink

english can be ok even when we change structure a little, there are a few languages that cannot be ok.

I can make my own. but that's not the best way, I think. every version-up edition comes out, I'll have to make it.

As you know, we Korean have a lot of board systems because of internet system development, But I'd say all most of them are too heavy and no other language pack.

sometimes we use phpbb because it has Korean languae pack. phpbb uses language structure not word-for-word translation.

4

Re: for supporting different language structure...

I think you misunderstood my reply. I was agreeing with you that one string would be better. What I was suggesting is that if you want to highlight parts of the string in bold tags they could be put in the language file. That way you get one string and at the same time you keep the option of formating parts of it.

Re: for supporting different language structure...

--; That cannot be applied to my mother lanuage, anyhow.

I really appreciate your concern, any way, Paul.

Re: for supporting different language structure...

I'll give it some thought for PunBB 1.2. Unfortunately I can't change it in the 1.1 tree because the change would invalidate all current language packs.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

Re: for supporting different language structure...

It does seem that jacobswell misunderstood Paul here. Paul was agreeing to the problem and merely suggesting a solution to Rickard, the example was made up randomly just for the sake of illustrating a possible difference.

With the Chinese language pack, I've came up against word order problems, too. I was able to adapt most of it, since Chinese really has a very loose structure. But I do agree that localization should not be based on words but on full sentences or even paragraphs/messages as a whole.

When basing translations on words, word order is not the only problem. Sometimes a more serious problem is word meaning. A word XYZ that has meaning A and B in English, and hence has it's translation string shared in two places, may be completely un-acceptable in another language, where the meanings A and B simply has to use different words PQR and STU. Lastly, a problem that doesn't come up all the time in technical translation, is when there are non-translatable words or phrases (this is more likely to occur when there is a lot of cultural content).

Fortunately, PunBB (and software localization in general) does not use a lot of complex and compound sentences. Most of the problems described above can be solved with a little creativity on the part of the translator, or experience and study, which may not always be available when it comes to voluntary localization of free software.

PS: I work as a translator between Chinese and English.

8 (edited by jacobswell 2004-05-03 04:34)

Re: for supporting different language structure...

if I misunderstand Paul, forgive me smile see I'm not an english-speaking person.
Actually what I understood is he suggested a solution having the same code, and I just said that would not look fit either.

I'm happy now for Rickard said he will give some thought of it.

as for Korean, 'can' is a sort of a verb and Korean structure has always put a verb at the last in the sentence except when we compose a poem. let's have a string like "you can post". In Korean grammar the meaning of 'can' should be after 'post' for we don't have a word for 'can' for 'can' is like a postfix of a verb. Auxiliary verbs are translated to postfixes of verbs in Korean language.

9

Re: for supporting different language structure...

Being pedantic about it, as the phrase concerns permissions rather than abilities, it could be argued that the English version should be

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Sorry, I'm having an off topic kind of day.