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PunBB Forums → General discussion → windows or mac for programming
I am just starting my degree in computer science and am having a hard time deciding to buy a new pc or mac. There are very strong opinions either way. The school supports pc's but, I don't want to limit my possibilities with just using one OS. Any information you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
The fact that Apple's marketshare is somewhere around 2% is an important factor to consider if you plan on making money when you're done :)
The other thing to consider is how easy it is to get help. There is far more help available both in terms of websites and literature for the PC.
Apples market share is a little more then 2%, Its closer to 5%
But it depends on which statistics you use
Oh, also they have 7% market share in the Laptop market aswell 
The other thing to consider is how easy it is to get help. There is far more help available both in terms of websites and literature for the PC.
Didnt see that above, so sorry for so many posts, but there is a lot of more usefull information on mac and a much more vibrent community for mac / linux then windows. Most i ever got from tech support at windows was i should re-install my pc!
Now why would i do a thing like that every few months!???
I wasn't talking about tech support, I meant programmers forums, code samples, tutorial sites etc plus books.
I would go with a Mac just because of OSX. In today's market, Unix skills is important. In tomorrow's market it will be essential.
Yes, you could get a PC and dual boot XP/Linux but I've been doing that for years and it getting tiring.
My next computer will be a G5, when the royalty checks come in 
Apples market share is a little more then 2%, Its closer to 5%
But it depends on which statistics you use
I'd love to see some numbers on that. Everywhere I look, (macnn included) I see number around 2 and 3 percent. The most recent I found was this one:
http://www.forbes.com/markets/2004/02/2 … can02.html
"According to Merrill, ninth-place Apple Computer (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) saw unit share dip below 2% for the first time--down to 1.7% in the fourth quarter."
Didnt see that above, so sorry for so many posts, but there is a lot of more usefull information on mac and a much more vibrent community for mac / linux then windows. Most i ever got from tech support at windows was i should re-install my pc!
Now why would i do a thing like that every few months!???
That's just silly.
I've written programs for both and found a few things:
1. the mac interfaces are WAY better (or were, i've only programed macOS 7 and 8).
2. getting developer help for macs if difficult at best, although apples' developers stuff is sometimes helpfull.
3. windows programming, while more complex, is MUCH more powerful. I can do stuff on a windows machine that would kill a mac (may not be true for OSX).
4. help for developers is plentifull for windows
although i have little experience with linux/unix what i have done seems to indicate that the support is about the same as for windows.
I am just starting my degree in computer science and am having a hard time deciding to buy a new pc or mac.
Get the best of all three- get yourself a nice G5 (the mac and with X11 the *nix side) and then run virtualPC for the win side. With enough ram to give to the win, performance not bad for casual use (from what I hear- TechTV- Win98 screams along pretty good), but the others (XP/W2K) are a bit slower. Thing is you can do it.
Also- don't some compilers support cross-platform compiling??
As for making money- true Win is majority, but also the majority of "free" or shareware programs you'd be competing against. And no offense, but the win crowd tend to be a bit more stingy with the money...
Mac on the other hand, not as many "freebies" and mac users, me for one, tend to spend a couple bucks for a good program...Smaller audience, but end result may be more people who will plop down the bucks....
i have heard about a mac compiler that will cross-compile, but if you need to use sockets, you will have to do that individually for the os, since mac and pc use different sockets.
also you have to consider the market of the program you are writing. macintosh seems to be more heavy in teh audio/visual industry. for some reason, the windows side has never been up to the standards for pro audio applications.
I am just starting my degree in computer science and am having a hard time deciding to buy a new pc or mac. There are very strong opinions either way. The school supports pc's but, I don't want to limit my possibilities with just using one OS. Any information you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, I couldn't help but pipe in here.
As the main administrator for macscripter.net, you should know that I will probably have a biased viewpoint. :>)
To make things clear, what a lot of the statistics don't tell you is, exactly where that 2-5% really is.
The Macintosh userbase is predomiently in the Graphics/Prepress market, where the Mac holds a solid 99% market share. While there will certainly be Billy Boxes in those environments, much of the time it is purely to open up and convert MicroSoft Punisher .... er, uh ... 'Publisher' files - and even then only to convert them so they print correctly on ImageSetters.
That was around 18 years ago, and that still holds true today. With one huge exception, and that is the advent of OSX. With OSX, you get so much built right in. php/mysql/perl/mach kernal and all is right there when you purchase your machine. I might also add that there are a *lot* of linux people migrating to OSX, because it offers so much for them out of the box.
As per programming and development, you might be surprised to know that Xcode is entirely free [the developers tools cd ships with each new mac or is included in the software upgrade purchase], so this suite of development tools is what everyone has been pining for. If you wish to develop for both Mac and PC [as well as linux] you can also purchase Real Basic, which has wonderful compilers for those platforms. With the next release of OSX Tiger, this development environment will only get better with Xcode 2.0 and Automator.
Since I'm a fanatic about Applescript in general, just know that applescript in general be be used as a 'glue' to allow you to do all kinds of things, that are just not available on the PC.
While it might not be as important to some, OSX does have a very clean GUI, and it's quite intuitive. There is so much more about OSX that is beyond the scope of this thread. But I can safely tell you that you will have a *lot* more fun developing for the Mac than PC bar none.
I am sure there will be others here who will take issue with my statement, but after working on both platforms for some time myself, I know I wouldn't give it a second thought in purchasing a Mac over a PC any day. :>)
If you think about it for a moment, one of the reasons why the PC market is such as it is has more to do with saturation of the market place than anything else. PC manufacturers don't own the Operating System, Microsoft does. That is the primary reason why PC's are so cheap, as there are many companies that make machines with Intel on the Inside. Please don't make the assumption the the PC is better just because there are so many of them around running Windows.
Here is another example. In a given setting, think of those secretaries who use MS Word, Excel, and PowerPoint all day long ... it doesn't take long to realize that is where the largest base of PC's are in use is in the Office place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I don't blame business owners for making that business decision - it all that person is going to do is run MS Word all day long. On the other hand, please consider the facts and basis for market share, as it's the sector of that market share that really matters most.
My 2 cents. :>)
While there will certainly be Billy Boxes in those environments, much of the time it is purely to open up and convert MicroSoft Punisher .... er, uh ...
Billy Boxes, first time I hear that term, I like it.
Got a spare G5 laying around :)
Raybo: I agree with pretty much everything you just said. MacOS X is great and I would love to use it as a workstation OS (if only I could afford a decent Mac). However, I don't think one of its biggest strengths is the fact that it has so much "built in", au contraire. I prefer an operating system that comes with nothing but the operating system. If I need an application to e.g. view movies, I'll install one. It only takes a minute. The number of operating systems that allow you to do this are few. Most Linux distributions come with a lot more stuff than MacOS X. I mean, Red Hat is something like 6 CDs filled with apps. I very much doubt people switch from Linux to MacOS X because the latter comes with more "stuff" out of the box, that's just not true. I think the main reason some Linux users are switching to MacOS X is the fact that it looks a lot better. Desktop environments for Linux and other UNIX clones aren't what they should be. Gnome is a step in the right direction, but it's still not as polished as MacOS X.
Macs are completely dominant in the "graphics/prepress" market, I agree. If kimmiewon is interested in working in that area, he should definately considerer focusing on Macs. However, fact remains that the total market share for Macs is minimal, so his chances of getting future employment as a developer are higher if he focuses on Windows. Then again, focusing on any language, platform or even API is a bad idea from the start. Developers to be reckoned with aren't tied to a specific language or platform. They master the art of programming, not the art of memorizing API calls. Come to think of it, I've been working with PHP way too long now. I really have to get my s**t together and do some "real" programming. Oh wait, I have to get 1.2 out the door first :)
PS. My older brother works in an ad agency, so believe me when I say I've had the old "PC vs. Mac" discussion before :)
I prefer an operating system that comes with nothing but the operating system.
Your're a man after my own heart, minimalist/conservatist to the very end. :>)
I guess what I should of re-emphasized is the fact the developer tools on OSX are free [we'll, not *totally* free, but you know what I mean]. You don't have to spend any more money to start developing right away. Once you purchase a PC, not only do ou have to purchase the IDE's, you have to be at Microsofts beck&call. That costs, in some cases a lot more than the expediture of your machine. That's sad! To be fair tho, it's that way with pretty much anything you do, and is the same way on either platform. [Have you ever bought Adobe's suit of products lately?]
Turn that around for the moment. Look at the number of developers that were sought after, during the '2000', or millenium crisis. There were guys who could develop, then there were guys who *really* developed - just no one was using their methods or language anymore because it was considered outdated, if not obsolete. None of the younger guys knew that stuff, so companies spent a lot of money hiring in older people from the market. It was pretty strange.
And, yes, there is no denying there are more PC's in this world than Macs. I won't argue that point. My thrust was where the market sectors are in particular, so in that context I still maintain the Mac is the better of the two.
Well, I told you my viewpoint would be a little biased ...... :>) LOL
I'm just happy to see kimmiewon wanting to get into programming/development to begin with, I think that is very cool. Hey, kimmiewon! - Did I ever tell ya about that .....
:>)
I guess what I should of re-emphasized is the fact the developer tools on OSX are free [we'll, not *totally* free, but you know what I mean]. You don't have to spend any more money to start developing right away. Once you purchase a PC, not only do ou have to purchase the IDE's, you have to be at Microsofts beck&call. That costs, in some cases a lot more than the expediture of your machine. That's sad! To be fair tho, it's that way with pretty much anything you do, and is the same way on either platform. [Have you ever bought Adobe's suit of products lately?]
True. Apple releasing it's developer tools for free is a great move on their behalf. I wish Microsoft would do the same. There are alternatives to Visual Studio of course, but none are as good as VS.
Turn that around for the moment. Look at the number of developers that were sought after, during the '2000', or millenium crisis. There were guys who could develop, then there were guys who *really* developed - just no one was using their methods or language anymore because it was considered outdated, if not obsolete. None of the younger guys knew that stuff, so companies spent a lot of money hiring in older people from the market. It was pretty strange.
Indeed. Who ever thought COBOL programmers would all of a sudden become sought after.
I'm just happy to see kimmiewon wanting to get into programming/development to begin with, I think that is very cool. Hey, kimmiewon! - Did I ever tell ya about that .....
Yeah, the world needs more developers.
oh .... did I say I like Macs? <g>
1 - I must Buy PC and MAC
2 - install Windows,MacOS,Linux
3 - learn C++,Pascal,VB,PHP,ASP
4 - Developing many applications and tools, free and commercial
after that maybe (maybe) i am a developer :-(
sorry ! but after 10 years programming, i must learn every day, there is a new word must you know it, i am tired.
I am learning programming and the Cocoa / Objective C environment offered in the free developers tools in Mac OS X 10.3 seems a really good place to start. Php/MySql, perl, UNIX command line tools - the mac offers a gentle introduction to these but then allows you to perform more advanced installation when you are ready to play!
The xCode environment looks like a fantastic environment to move between programming languages and acquire new skills. Fantastic online documentation.
Can I ask: Is the market share of the mac skewed by the legacy user base of wintel machines, ie. all the machines that have ever been bought and are still being used? The mac was a niche market, but with the 'switch' campaign and the fantastic os x panther and tiger the future and long term presence of the mac os is assured.
Any sources of stats would be welcome. Thanks
Man, The duke, I'm jealous. :>)
I've only recently started playing with more php development, so unfortunately my "real" programming skills will have to go park somewhere.
My background has been in the desktop/prepress industry [20 or so years]. I've written a couple of articles specifically to the differences between Mac and PC in the prepress arena, altho they would be terribly dated, if not answer your question directly.
I have heard that a lot of folks switched - but I have not seen any hard data either - I would be interested in that as well. As much web development as we have hired out, I always like to pose the question, and almost all of my friends who previously were using Linux [of some kind/flavor] intend on making a Mac purchase soon. That is only a pitance, but in my small camp, that really means something.
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