26 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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  • Registered: 2004-07-19
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Someone says me one day "use common visions to explain your point of view" ... so ...

I have two books : a roman book with inside words ... which creates sentences smile
in another hand, I have a dictionnary, which contains only the "sense" of the words.

for me, a new window, it's the possibility to read my book, but open in same time a dictionary if I don't understand a word inside the book.

With your "vision", I have to close my book, only open my dictionary ... ohhhh great !!!! I have the sense ... but which page did I stop on my book ? Grrrr I have to search.

Simply that : a website is like a book, with coherence. By putting "no target", or JS ... to do the difference between links which are the navigation of your website, and links for "new websites", you loose people, simply. And the new generation "doesn't learn". Like me, go often in cybercafes ... you'll be surprised.

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

  • Connorhd
  • Connorhd
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Re: Links open a new browser window

well it doesn't force you to open in the same window, you CAN open in a new window,
with target _blank, you have to open in a new window you CANNOT open in the same window

FluxBB.
Connorhd.co.uk.

Connorhd's Website

28 Reply by Justin

  • Registered: 2005-02-16
  • Posts: 37

Re: Links open a new browser window

I understood Rod's point of view much better before the "book" analogy. wink  You've already made the "I want multiple windows open" argument, and we've already debunked said argument (several times) by pointing out that you can already do what you want without forcing new windows on people who don't want them.

Then you shift gears and decide your argument isn't about books and dictionaries, but about trying not to "loose" your site viewers. As I suggested previously, it's sad that some site developers consistently put their own interests ahead of site users, all the while maintaining that it's for the users' own good.

I suggest we simply agree to disagree on this topic. smile

29 Reply by graue

  • graue
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Re: Links open a new browser window

The book analogy makes sense to me, but that's why you can middle-click or shift-click or whatever it is in your browser, and choose to open a link in a new window. I do it all the time (okay, I actually open them in new tabs, but same idea). What's so hard about pressing Shift?

When a link opens in a new window, I don't have a key I can press to open it in the same window. Leave that choice up to me, please.

30 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Apart from anything else I also regard opening links in new windows as downright bad manners. The web designer is essentially hijacking my desktop. It's upto me how many windows I have open on my desktop not the web designer. The only legitimate exception to this is a help system where you really would want to see the help screen and the active window at the same time particularly when the help is associated with a form.

31 Reply by Rod (edited by Rod 2005-02-20 03:13)

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Or ... creating a dhtml (or css) popup menu which appears beneath the link with "current window" or "new window", 100% degradable for non dhtml browsers ... it would be the better solution for PRO and NON PRO new windows ? No ? smile



http://www.dyn-web.com/dhtml/tooltips/tooltip.html


simply find a solution with javascript to the link        (onclick:this.href ?) ...

and add about Settimeout (1000 for example, time to choose)

by default, if user click on the url, it's current window ... if he wants an "expressive" choice, 2 links inside popup : current and new window ...

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

32 Reply by graue

  • graue
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Re: Links open a new browser window

It's totally pointless! Just hold Shift or middle-click, for crying out loud. Or right-click and get a menu with the exact options you want.

You're free to setup your own site however you want it, but I really don't see why you're bothering with this.

  • Connorhd
  • Connorhd
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Re: Links open a new browser window

http://punbb.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=34905#p34905

now you can all be happy (apart from the people browsing your site)

FluxBB.
Connorhd.co.uk.

Connorhd's Website

34 Reply by graue

  • graue
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Indeed.

35 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

I speak with webmasters who don't understand the new generation of net is not our generation ...

drop it.

your accessibility is a brainstorming for webmasters, not the users.

incredible.

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

36 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Rod wrote:

I speak with webmasters who don't understand the new generation of net is not our generation ...

drop it.

So you want to go back to HTML 4.0 and using tables for layout then.

37 Reply by hcgtv

  • hcgtv
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Paul wrote:

So you want to go back to HTML 4.0 and using tables for layout then.

I want to do my site like this: http://www.williamson-labs.com/

PHPCrossRef . TXP Make . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . We Love TXP

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38 Reply by Justin

  • Registered: 2005-02-16
  • Posts: 37

Re: Links open a new browser window

hcgtv: Classic! I'm definitely going to bookmark that site.

If you want some additional entertainment, check out the sites in Rod's sig. So that's what you call putting users ahead of webmasters? What a disaster. To cite just one glaring example on Fantasya... I hear it's really user friendly to intercept scroll wheel movements via Javascript -- preventing vertical scrolling via the mouse -- for the purpose of animating some bubbles. Yeah, I'm sure visitors to this site were clamoring to have their scroll wheel disabled.

The abject hypocrisy at work here is, as Rod put it, incredible (as in "not credible").

39 Reply by Rod (edited by Rod 2005-02-20 23:17)

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

ahahahah smile great smile

really, great.

For "great" webmasters like you, who want to learn people to use MAJ + clic, download for your firefox the Mouse Weel Plugin ... smile

My site fantasya.net is pretty smile you don't like ? > fuck off

Simply.

You can bann me, no problem ... Justin : post your stuff ... but it's easy to have a critic when you have nothing to show.

About fantasya : if people don't have flash, the css layout is beneath it. A flash about 17 ko ... so let me laugh. Please. If for you webdesign = sad, without colors, for the name of ACCESSIBILITY ... great !!!! all webmasters will do the same site ....

Great. Really. Progress.


Something to say about http://www.sortons.net/steac/ ???

Maybe ...

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

40 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Paul wrote:
Rod wrote:

I speak with webmasters who don't understand the new generation of net is not our generation ...

drop it.

So you want to go back to HTML 4.0 and using tables for layout then.

it's fun you say it ... it's not you who don't want dhtml because it's not backward compatible ?

I have stopped tables since 1998 when I visited http://www.htmlguru.com and http://www.dhtmlnirvana.com


anyway ...

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

41 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Lets cool it.

The bottom line here is that every site should be tailored to its target audience. Rod obviously knows his users and wishes to give them the experience they want. Thats great. Thats what webmasters are supposed to do.

The trouble is that PunBB is not a website, its a script that will be deployed on many different websites that have many different requirements.  Since it cannot be made perfect for every user in every situation the best that can be achieved if for standards to be complied with and accessability guidelines to be met (as far as possible). That way webmasters have a decent and consistent foundation upon which to build their site. They are then free to customize PunBB to fit their exact requirements.

42 Reply by Justin

  • Registered: 2005-02-16
  • Posts: 37

Re: Links open a new browser window

Glad you were amused by my comments, Rod. Guess I must have hit a soft spot. smile

For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to make this personal. I simply pointed out what appears (to me at least) a major inconsistency with your constant harping about putting users first. I never said Fantasya isn't a pretty site -- it is indeed a very nice looking site. Much better than I could ever design. But from a user friendliness perspective, it needs a lot of work. That's my opinion. I'm sure you couldn't care less. Great!

Your argument that "we" want boring sites is just silly. There are many fantastic looking sites that don't impede the capabilities of users' web browsers. I'm sure you have seen them before.

By the way, since when does one need to download a plugin to use the scroll wheel in Firefox? I'm not sure what you're talking about there. I have yet to see the need for that on any platform -- in my experience, if the OS supports the scroll wheel, so does Firefox.

Something to say about http://www.sortons.net/steac/ ???

Sure, if that is your wish.

Site design looks great. I'm guessing the site will render fine for viewers who have set their browsers to default to French, but on my browser (Firefox) the rendering was quite b0rked. You might want to include a Content-Type header to fix this. Something along the lines of...

    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

I can send you a screenshot if you like.

As I already tried suggesting once before, can we just agree to disagree on what's best for end users? I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this one.

43 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

By the way, since when does one need to download a plugin to use the scroll wheel in Firefox? I'm not sure what you're talking about there. I have yet to see the need for that on any platform -- in my experience, if the OS supports the scroll wheel, so does Firefox.

Firefox has a bug when you use, like me, STATIC CSS body to simulate FRAMES. Instead of scrolling the content, Firefox scrolls all le layout. The plugin rectifies this bug smile Try this link http://smoothwheel.mozdev.org/index.html ... As you can see, Firefox is not perfect smile

in french browsers, UTF-8 realizes very weird things ...

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

44 Reply by Justin

  • Registered: 2005-02-16
  • Posts: 37

Re: Links open a new browser window

Hmm... I use absolute CSS positioning all the time, and I have never had a problem with Firefox and the scroll wheel on my sites.

I wasn't suggesting that you should use UTF-8; that was only an example. I imagine the correct character set encoding for French is probably ISO-8859-1.

45 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

The technic I use is not really absolute positioning : all the divs are "free" : but I play with padding of body, by creating "pseudo frames" ... and with this, Firefox doesn't like so much smile I'm sure if you have installed the Smoothweel, all works ... isn't it ?

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

46 Reply by graue

  • graue
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Re: Links open a new browser window

I actually like boring sites.

Provided they have interesting content.

  • From: France
  • Registered: 2004-11-06
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Justin wrote:

I wasn't suggesting that you should use UTF-8; that was only an example. I imagine the correct character set encoding for French is probably ISO-8859-1.

Nope, for french it's UTF8. ISO-8859-15 can be used, but some characters will be missing.

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48 Reply by Rod

  • Rod
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Re: Links open a new browser window

Jérémie wrote:
Justin wrote:

I wasn't suggesting that you should use UTF-8; that was only an example. I imagine the correct character set encoding for French is probably ISO-8859-1.

Nope, for french it's UTF8. ISO-8859-15 can be used, but some characters will be missing.

no smile it's under UTF-8 some characters missing ...
example : http://www.sortons.net/x-5/

http://www.sortons.net
http://www.fantasya.net

Rod's Website

  • From: 127.0.0.1
  • Registered: 2001-11-02
  • Posts: 9,167

Re: Links open a new browser window

I doubt characters are missing from ISO-8859-1/ISO-8859-15. Which characters?

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

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