1 Topic by zc923

  • zc923
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Topic: People scared of Firefox?

http://software.silicon.com/security/0, … 294,00.htm

It is true that firefox has its security flaws, but they are rarely exploited, as well as quickly made public and patched.

So what would cause a decrease in the number of new adopters?
If this author actually finished high school math, he would know that this is like an exponential population equation.

When this was new, there were more people that would download it and use. The more people that are using it, the less people there are in the world to START using it. Eventually, you will run out of people.

So are less people adopting to firefox? Yes. Should we be worried that microsoft will make a come back? (if you use firefox, how would you answer this question?)

Do, or do not.
  • From: Bedford, VA, USA
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

I would rather use Firefox and have those flaws that no one knows about instead of letting IE load my computer up with adware and spyware.

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3 Reply by Paul

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Well I use Firefox but only for development because I like the web developer plugin and Firefox is the best browser for a test rig (actually thats not true anymore, Opera 8 is better). I gave up using it for browsing after a few months and went back to IE6. A year ago your average internet user was using IE6 on XP Home. Today your average internet user is using IE6 on XP Home. IE6 doesn't need to make a comeback because it hasn't really gone anywhere. As long as it's tied to the Windows it will always be king of the hill. Anyway, a quick look at a variety of stats shows Firefox took people away from Netscape, Mozilla and Opera as well as IE.

The reality is that there are only a limited number of people who are going to try a browser other than the one bundled with their operating system so Firefox will always be confined to that minority segment of internet users. As for security issues, most people don't even know they exist.

In answer to the question "People scared of Firefox?" the anwser is how can people be scared of something they have never heard of.

4 Reply by hcgtv

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

I've been using a Gecko based browser since Mozilla 0.8, which was released on February of 2001.

That's 4 years of constant use and I've never had any problems to speak of like the users of IE have had.

The only reason Microsoft is releasing IE 7 early is in response to Firefox's propularity. So the users that are IE diehards should thank the Mozilla corporation for getting them a new upgrade to their browser. Competition is good wink

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  • From: Bedford, VA, USA
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

I use Firefox all the time IE was more of a virus to me than a browser. I use Ad-aware to search my computer of well adware. When I used IE I had to run Ad-aware once every 3 days and get 8 new objects every time. Then I switched to firefox and now I run Ad-aware every other month and if I'm lucky I have 1 or 2 new objects.  Also IE has CSS distortion witch sucks big time. I like to the site as made not what the browser thinks it looks like. Call me a fanboy w/e I just don't like IE through my own experience.

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6 Reply by zc923

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Ever since I was forced to go from 98 se to me, I've started to despise IE. Sure, its more widely used, and your right Paul, as long as windows comes with IE, IE is going to be the number one browser. But its also important to note the impact that firefox has had on the internet community. Before firefox, there really wasen't anyone standing up to microsoft. At one point or another, microsoft forgot that it had to maintain its user base. This was capitilized by companies such as mozilla, and proved that users had a choice. Microsoft has been running damage control since then, although they never really lossed anything, being industry leaders, they were forced to show that they could not be out foxed by a open source company (pun intended).

I tried going back to IE, and I swear, since service pack 2, its the most annoying it has ever bin. I am so used to tabbed browsing, and my plugins, its hard for me to use a computer without firefox. How many users do you know that cannot function without IE?

Do, or do not.
  • From: zCOM
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Well, as a web developer, I know that having things look ok across the board is important. For my IE needs (testing web-pages, CSS, etc...) I use NetWorker.


Anyways - I digress.
When it comes to using IE, sometimes it's necessary. Whether I'm traveling (at someone else's house, the library, or whatever), it was necessary to use IE sometimes. The same with users of my site - I can't expect them to all use Firefox. Until the Firefox Live! (Firefox run entirely from CD) project became a little more mature, I was stuck on the go. Now I have FF on a business-card sized CD (customized for use by yours truly), and can use it on most computers (thanks to the magic of Autorun). Even when ther initial customer base runs out, there will still be a trickle of new converts.

I seriously doubt that the slowdown in users has anything to do with security issues. It's got more to do with the media.
Plus, this has nothing to do with the growth of IE. The only reason it's so popular is that people don't realize they have a choice, or are not tech-savy enough to care. I mean - How many people havn't used IE? As opposed to people who haven't used FF?
It's too new in the game to make assumptions.
Remember when Apple was king? Remember Netscape Navigator? *lol*

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

For personal browsing I won't use anything else. The browser hierarchy as far as i'm concerned goes...

Firefox > Safari > Opera > Mozilla > Camino > Omniweb > K-Meleon > Konqueror > whatever else > IE > text only browsers

Still have to use IE for testing though tongue

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  • Registered: 2005-04-26
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

I'm not afraid of it....I just dislike it.

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/0 … index.html

Statistics can be misleading, but I like the sound of this:

"Outside the United States, Germany is among the leading adopters of Firefox, with a 23 percent share, compared with 69 percent for Internet Explorer."

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

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11 Reply by Paul

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Its all irrelevant anyway, in a few years the internet will be piped into peoples homes on cable and displayed on their digital TV's. They will laugh at the notion that one upon a time people actually had to use computers for the web.

  • Registered: 2005-04-26
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Paul wrote:

Its all irrelevant anyway, in a few years the internet will be piped into peoples homes on cable and displayed on their digital TV's. They will laugh at the notion that one upon a time people actually had to use computers for the web.

You think so? So then all these discussions will be about Sony vs Magnavox?

13 Reply by Paul

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Yep. And I will be complaining that Sony Plasma screens can't interpret css as well as Samsung can.

  • From: zCOM
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Paul wrote:

Yep. And I will be complaining that Sony Plasma screens can't interpret css as well as Samsung can.

DAMNED SONY!!!
DAMN THEM AND THEIR NON-STANDARDS COMPLIANT PLASMA SCREENS!

lol

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15 Reply by Endre

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

It's an interesting topic, but I think it's based on lack of knowledge.

IE is ridden with security-holes, and has been forever. Firefox has much less flaws, but the difference is that Firefox actually FIXES the mistakes.
Also, Firefox developers is open about the problem, unlike MS who prefers to hide the problem for 2 years while they work on a patch (in the meantime, 10 new critical errors have suraced).

So the way I see it, Firefox being open about the errors the encounter, makes some people scared. SO they would rather live ignorant and feeling "safe" with IE because MS does not inform about their problems as quickly as FF does.

(written without any hard evidence.. it's just the impression I have as an avid net-addict wink )

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16 Reply by KTottE

  • From: Stockholm, Sweden
  • Registered: 2003-04-27
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

I'm actually going to step up and defend Microsoft here.

Since Microsoft do take longer to release security fixes for IE, I think they shouldn't release information about the security holes in IE.

*) You can't do anything about the security hole, in most cases, so you do not benefit from knowing that it's there.
*) Malicious people gain knowledge about how to exploit the browser if the developers release information about the security hole.

With that in mind, would you rather Microsoft kept a lid on it and then later on down the line released a patch that removed the exploit, or would you have them release the information about the security hole and leave end users more exposed for a long period of time?

The Firefox devs can release information about security holes, as security fixes are only days away.

  • From: Bedford, VA, USA
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Endre wrote:

It's an interesting topic, but I think it's based on lack of knowledge.

IE is ridden with security-holes, and has been forever. Firefox has much less flaws, but the difference is that Firefox actually FIXES the mistakes.
Also, Firefox developers is open about the problem, unlike MS who prefers to hide the problem for 2 years while they work on a patch (in the meantime, 10 new critical errors have suraced).

So the way I see it, Firefox being open about the errors the encounter, makes some people scared. SO they would rather live ignorant and feeling "safe" with IE because MS does not inform about their problems as quickly as FF does.

(written without any hard evidence.. it's just the impression I have as an avid net-addict wink )

I so agree with that Firefox fixes any holes or mistakes. MS leaves those holes then releases a patch as soon as many people get a virus or something from it and it breaks news.

KTottE wrote:

With that in mind, would you rather Microsoft kept a lid on it and then later on down the line released a patch that removed the exploit, or would you have them release the information about the security hole and leave end users more exposed for a long period of time?

No. If there is something wrong with what I'm using I want to know so I can avoid the problem instead of falling into a trap due to MS leaving their user ignorant.

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18 Reply by hcgtv

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

shinko_metsuo wrote:

[No. If there is something wrong with what I'm using I want to know so I can avoid the problem instead of falling into a trap due to MS leaving their user ignorant.

Microsoft works on the Orwellian principle of "Ignorance is strength".

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  • From: zCOM
  • Registered: 2005-01-16
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

hcgtv wrote:
shinko_metsuo wrote:

[No. If there is something wrong with what I'm using I want to know so I can avoid the problem instead of falling into a trap due to MS leaving their user ignorant.

Microsoft works on the Orwellian principle of "Ignorance is strength".

*roffles on waffles*
That's the best description I've ever heard.

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20 Reply by KTottE

  • From: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Didn't you read my entire post? More specifically, this bit:

*) You can't do anything about the security hole, in most cases, so you do not benefit from knowing that it's there.

"You can't do anything about the security hole, in most cases".

The nature of most security holes in Internet Explorer means that you cannot avoid them with anything less than not using the browser.
By releasing the information, Microsoft are allowing more 'script-kiddies' to exploit the security holes thus making life harder on Internet Explorer users.

And, like I said, with Microsofts longer time between finding a security hole and releasing a patch I wouldn't want to have the knowledge about the security hole floating around out there on the world wide web.

But I guess it's too popular to bash Microsoft to care about that.

  • From: Bedford, VA, USA
  • Registered: 2005-02-04
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

KTottE wrote:

The nature of most security holes in Internet Explorer means that you cannot avoid them with anything less than not using the browser.

why do you think I use Firefox instead?

erissiva wrote:

Microsoft works on the Orwellian principle of "Ignorance is strength".

I'm surprised my school supports Microsoft tongue

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22 Reply by Endre

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Re: People scared of Firefox?

KTottE wrote:

By releasing the information, Microsoft are allowing more 'script-kiddies' to exploit the security holes thus making life harder on Internet Explorer users.

I understand what you're trying so say here. But if you think that the security holes are unknown to crackers and virus-makers just because MS hasn't gone public about them knowing about it, you're naive.
How do you think MS learns about the problem? thats right.. cause someone has exploited it!
Even after the problem is known (because it's been used!) MS still keeps it a secret for 6-12 months, full well knowing that more people will have a problem with it.

Just because the public doesn't know about the problem, does mean its not known to the people exploiting it!
Firefox on the other hand lets people know so that people can take pre-caution the few days it takes to fix the problem.

So like someone said here, ignorace is strenght.

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23 Reply by zc923

  • zc923
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Re: People scared of Firefox?

Actually, more often then not, most secuirty flaws in browsers are discovered by indipendant security firms working for the corporate world. If you think we are concerned about our safety, imagine what measures companies such as IBM go through.

Do, or do not.