1 Topic by Mediator (edited by Mediator 2006-09-12 20:29)

  • Registered: 2004-04-16
  • Posts: 199

Topic: Mod Resource

I am strongly considering setting up some sort of of system that will let people pay a one time fixed fee $5-$10 usd that would give them the ability to obtain and download certain mods that I create in the future, that would not be avaliable anywhere else.

This would include a shop mod, and EasyPoll 2.0 (Demo Here: http://67.18.93.181/~uniflorg/shop/polls/index.php, as well as many other future mods

The idea being that you pay a small fee one time and end up getting several mods which would be exclusive to people who have paid the fee. This also means, however, that the mods released to the people who have paid the fee, would never be openly released the public.


I am just curious about everyones thoughts on the issue



Also I am currently taking suggestions for the next version of easy poll which can be currently tried here http://67.18.93.181/~uniflorg/shop/polls/index.php. If you would like to create a poll or vote you will need to quickly register an account

I enjoy pie :)
  • From: -8 GMT
  • Registered: 2004-05-04
  • Posts: 1,396

Re: Mod Resource

i'm not as well versed on gpl as most of everyone here but once someone pays for the mod can't they legally release it free?

~James
FluxBB - Less is more
  • Registered: 2004-04-16
  • Posts: 199

Re: Mod Resource

Technically unless I copy or distribute portions of punbb with the mods, I don't believe I have to release them under GPL since, really I'm just giving instructions to modify punbb, and my own code...

I enjoy pie :)
  • From: Herts - UK
  • Registered: 2005-09-11
  • Posts: 842

Re: Mod Resource

The poll mod is nice... shame about the idea of a cost...
Created account for testing...
Username: test Password: qwerty

Reminds me when I was looking for mods/exstensions for PHPBB.............................................................. hmm

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  • Jansson
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  • Registered: 2003-01-06
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Re: Mod Resource

Last time I read the GPL license, it was clearly stated that both modification and/or plugins to a GPL software, must be released as GPL.

  • From: Ottawa, Canada
  • Registered: 2006-09-05
  • Posts: 308

Re: Mod Resource

Isn't there a GPLess or something? I think wine, or SDL uses it to allow companies to release software that uses thier libraries but is copyrighted under a different licence. But as far as I know GPL doesn't let you.

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  • Smartys
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Re: Mod Resource

Jansson wrote:

Last time I read the GPL license, it was clearly stated that both modification and/or plugins to a GPL software, must be released as GPL.

Indeed
Mediator: You can certainly charge for the mods, but the people that buy them are free to redistribute the mods for free, as Dr.Jeckyl said.

Technically unless I copy or distribute portions of punbb with the mods, I don't believe I have to release them under GPL since, really I'm just giving instructions to modify punbb, and my own code...

Except your code needs PunBB to work wink
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm … stedPublic
Instructions on how to modify something are just as good as modifications of the thing in this case tongue

  • Registered: 2006-06-07
  • Posts: 80

Re: Mod Resource

Mediator,
I think you can legally release a closed source version of the poll_mod, but it should not be based on any code of punbb.
It is posible, yes, legal, yes.

But, I would suggest openning a paypal account or something and ask for a donation. You can end up having a really happy admin of a big forum and donating 100$

Anyway, is up to you. If your original poll source code is gpl, someone might end up modifying it and releasing it as a new version(credits to you of course).

In my case, I only need a simple poll like phpbb, that is a "regular" poll. So, I won't be buying the new version. Also, I don't have the money wink

Thanks
Oliver

http://tinymailto.com/oliversl <-- my email after a captcha

9 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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  • From: Wales, UK.
  • Registered: 2003-08-13
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Re: Mod Resource

I'm not entirely convinced about instructins being caught by the GPL. If the code is contained in files as code then certainly but if the code simply appears as something to copy and paste from the instructions I don't think its caught. If it was then it would be legal to photocopy books about GPL software and sell or give away the copies.

  • Smartys
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Re: Mod Resource

Paul wrote:

I'm not entirely convinced about instructins being caught by the GPL. If the code is contained in files as code then certainly but if the code simply appears as something to copy and paste from the instructions I don't think its caught. If it was then it would be legal to photocopy books about GPL software and sell or give away the copies.

I don't know about books about GPL software (never seen one, personally tongue) but I think that telling someone how to modify the source code is the same as giving them a copy of the modified source code smile

0.  This License applies to any program or other work which contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed under the terms of this General Public License. The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language. (Hereinafter, translation is included without limitation in the term "modification".) Each licensee is addressed as "you".

A modification for PunBB is a derivative work, however the information is presented smile

  • Registered: 2006-06-05
  • Posts: 410

Re: Mod Resource

Would extensions be a derivative work?

12 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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Re: Mod Resource

I would say that extensions certainly would be.

The only real problem with the licence is the phrase "work based on the program". The definition is so vague that that it would need to be interpreted by the Courts. What is clear though is that anything that could be described as software, which an extension would be, is within the definition.

  • From: U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2005-08-26
  • Posts: 1,607

Re: Mod Resource

Regardless of GPL issues, I think there are some points you should consider:

a) PunBB is free forum software. While I'm certainly saying neither that this obligates you to make mods free as well nor that all PunBB are unwilling to pay, in general I think that PunBB users would be less receptive to paid mods than users of paid software such as IPB or vBulletin, especially with the number of free mods out there.

b) What are you going to do if someone develops a free alternative (which seems likely)? Even if your mod is vastly superior to the other one, your market could still rapidly evaporate.

c) Some potential users (especially younger ones) won't have access to the means to pay or will feel uneasy making a payment.

d) I don't see any effective way to keep people from sharing bought mods with each other.

Like oliversl said, you might be able to get some nice donations. In addition, if you put together a nice "mod resource" with the mods free but still exclusive to the site you might be able to scrape up some earnings through some ads. Also, you might be able to charge to make some custom tweaks to your mods. Finally, while I personally am not particularly fond of this approach, you could require a linkback in your mods and charge to waive the requirement (that would be quite hard to enforce though).

Of course, this is all purely theoretical - just something to think about. Whatever route you choose (as long as it's legal under the GPL), I'm fine with it.

Looking for a certain modification for your forum? Please take a look here before posting.
  • Jansson
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Re: Mod Resource

Paul wrote:

I would say that extensions certainly would be.

The only real problem with the licence is the phrase "work based on the program". The definition is so vague that that it would need to be interpreted by the Courts. What is clear though is that anything that could be described as software, which an extension would be, is within the definition.

I don't think the question here is what the software is based on. Because he isn't doing a PunBB fork or anything. But modifications require a GPL licensed software to run, therefor he have to release them as GPL as well. This also goes for future extensions. They can be compared to what is referred to as "plugins" in the GPL.

  • From: Ottawa, Canada
  • Registered: 2006-09-05
  • Posts: 308

Re: Mod Resource

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html

Here's two links, the second explains the difference between the two GNU licencess. Basically, if it's GPL, anything that looks sideways, through a kalidascope at the code, has to itself be GPL. LGPL let's prorietary software look sidesways, through a kalidascope though.

echo "deadram"; echo; fortune;
  • Registered: 2004-04-16
  • Posts: 199

Re: Mod Resource

Jansson wrote:
Paul wrote:

I would say that extensions certainly would be.

The only real problem with the licence is the phrase "work based on the program". The definition is so vague that that it would need to be interpreted by the Courts. What is clear though is that anything that could be described as software, which an extension would be, is within the definition.

I don't think the question here is what the software is based on. Because he isn't doing a PunBB fork or anything. But modifications require a GPL licensed software to run, therefor he have to release them as GPL as well. This also goes for future extensions. They can be compared to what is referred to as "plugins" in the GPL.

I am not entirly sure that is true, Take for example UnrealIRCd which is released under the GPL. Coders create "modules" which are essentially the same thing as plugins/extensions and sell them all the time :\

I enjoy pie :)

17 Reply by Jansson (edited by Jansson 2006-09-13 13:16)

  • Jansson
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Re: Mod Resource

Mediator wrote:

I am not entirly sure that is true, Take for example UnrealIRCd which is released under the GPL. Coders create "modules" which are essentially the same thing as plugins/extensions and sell them all the time :\

May be because the original developer doesn't bother, it probably is a good thing for the community and therefor they let it be. Just a thought.

Btw, what license are these plugins sold under?

18 Reply by lhffan

  • Registered: 2006-02-06
  • Posts: 68

Re: Mod Resource

If it is a small fee i would not have anything against for paying for quality mods. Especially if you send checks from time to time to Rickard so he can buy his beer.

But if you charges for a mod buyers will demand more than they does today, it would be more work to do for you.

19 Reply by deadram (edited by deadram 2006-09-13 15:37)

  • From: Ottawa, Canada
  • Registered: 2006-09-05
  • Posts: 308

Re: Mod Resource

Just put up some google adds and host your mods on only that site (with the adds), then whine alot and get people to click on the g-adds. And ask for donations to your beer fund too! big_smile

EDIT --

Could always add admin/moderator viewable adds to any site that uses your mods too... (that ways only the "original installer" get's to see the adds, but they see them every day).

echo "deadram"; echo; fortune;
  • Registered: 2006-06-05
  • Posts: 410

Re: Mod Resource

Jansson wrote:

But modifications require a GPL licensed software to run, therefor he have to release them as GPL as well. This also goes for future extensions.

What if, hypothetically, I made my own software that was (technically) compatible with (but in no way derived from) PunBB's extension system, and that extensions worked as intended with either software. Where would the the deriving/modification/including-of-code occur in the actual extension file?

  • Jansson
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Re: Mod Resource

guardian34 wrote:
Jansson wrote:

But modifications require a GPL licensed software to run, therefor he have to release them as GPL as well. This also goes for future extensions.

What if, hypothetically, I made my own software that was (technically) compatible with (but in no way derived from) PunBB's extension system, and that extensions worked as intended with either software. Where would the the deriving/modification/including-of-code occur in the actual extension file?

That's for a court to decide tongue

  • Frank H
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  • Registered: 2003-03-16
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Re: Mod Resource

I guess you'd make a similar amount of money if you get people to pay for the mods, or if you will accept donations for them ... with the big difference that with things people pay money for, they will demand things to be top notch, with good service etc. With donations, it's more of a "Thank you for what you've done, I hope you continue", than a "Hey I payed for this and I must have it working before tonight, c'mon I'm waiting!"

I've had a number of people asking about donating to me for my mods, but I've replied to them that at this moment, I don't have any use for the money, that I've only released mods to the public that I myself want.
And said that they should either keep it, or donate it to another mod creator or Rickard instead.

So, really, I don't think you will get that much difference in income, and no licence worries either wink

But ... it's impossible to tell what lies in the future, but this is kind of a guesswork/gut feeling I have ... wink

23 Reply by hcgtv

  • hcgtv
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  • Registered: 2004-06-25
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Re: Mod Resource

Donations and/or Amazon wishlists are the way to go.

As Frank points out, there's less pressure on you.

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24 Reply by Patrik

  • Registered: 2004-01-12
  • Posts: 36

Re: Mod Resource

If someone charge for mods, I think all money income should be sent to Rickard. That would be fair.

  • Frank H
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Re: Mod Resource

well, the modwriters have also spent time on their code, so that's a bit too agressive IMHO ...
(I really don't want to think about the number of hours spent on the Attachment mods ... but still it's alot less than Rickard, but still a definitely countable hours spent, especially in troubleshooting after release wink)

Also, if there would be 'pay for' mods, I'm quite sure there soon would be a free alternative mod ...