1 (edited by MadHatter 2007-01-26 17:35)

Topic: php + .net = greatness

I ran across this article this morning...  I gave it a quick glance over and it looks really cool.  I really like both php and .NET so this looks like a marriage made in heaven!

The article
The project home page

unlike most language ports for .NET this one allows you to use native php or .NET in php...  much better than the .net extension for php IMO.

Re: php + .net = greatness

Rawr. That's certainly interesting big_smile

Re: php + .net = greatness

mmmm... don't really know what to think. The words 'microsoft' and 'interesting' do not coexist in my brain.

Re: php + .net = greatness

pedrotuga wrote:

mmmm... don't really know what to think. The words 'microsoft' and 'interesting' do not coexist in my brain.

sounds like you've already made up your mind ... wink

Re: php + .net = greatness

pedrotuga wrote:

mmmm... don't really know what to think. The words 'microsoft' and 'interesting' do not coexist in my brain.

.NET is actually one of those shiny things Microsoft produced tongue

6 (edited by MadHatter 2007-01-27 23:52)

Re: php + .net = greatness

because they brought in anders hejlsberg (the creator of Delphi) to create it for them.  .NET is actually something they did right IMO.  using mono you can develop for nix and windows.  If I'm not mistaken, gnome is using mono for their development (I could be wrong about this one though).

.net lets you create language extensions for it so that you can write .net apps in python, C#, vb, C++, perl, fortran, and a ton of other languages.  the cool thing about this is, that it allows you to use the php framework, and .net framework however you wish.

being able to write a file saying:

using ( StreamWriter sw = new StreamWriter("foo.txt") ) {
    s.Write("blah");
}

as opposed to:

$fh = fopen("text", "a");
fwrite($fh, "blah");
fclose($fh);

is just one of the ways that they've taken what we've all been doing since the 60's and made it easier to write, override, and manipulate.

7

Re: php + .net = greatness

When Anders left to work at Microsoft, I was very involved with Delphi at the time. To show my disgust, I put up an Anders tribute web page, sort of a joke. I can't find where I put the html but I did find an image that was sent to me by an anonymous source.

It's a poster that was hanging up at the Borland campus:

http://nupusi.org/images/anders_missing.jpg

Re: php + .net = greatness

I like multiplatform open solutions and .net / C# isn't that great for me wink as for scripting languages for C#, Java, .Net there is for example multipurpose Python (also Jython - written in Java, Iron Python written in .Net). Ruby in simillar position. PHP as a versalite scripting language is a bit limited.

My site [PHP, Python, Linux]

Re: php + .net = greatness

What I'd like is a reliable way to load .NET dll's from PHP.

Hahaha! I've seen some channel9 videos featuring Anders and he sure seems to know what he's talking about. Gotta love his Danish accent.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

10

Re: php + .net = greatness

hcgtv wrote:

I've seen some channel9 videos featuring Anders and he sure seems to know what he's talking about.

Well he was the brainchild behind Delphi, very smart individual. Delphi kind of died after he left, not because of a talent drain, just because those in the know, knew that M$ was going to squash another promising technology.

11

Re: php + .net = greatness

You opened my wounds, i have tons of code and experiences in Delphi and i must throw in the trash, no problem

And the really ask now, what the way we can choose for next 10 years of coding.

C# or PHP , Mono or something else?

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

Re: php + .net = greatness

Rickard wrote:

What I'd like is a reliable way to load .NET dll's from PHP.

from the looks of it, this is able to do just that.  granted, under the hood, its .net not php that way.

you should be able to (at least in windows) create CCW's of your .net dll's and invoke that from within PHP through COM, but Phalanger looks pretty promising for that type of thing.

zaher wrote:

And the really ask now, what the way we can choose for next 10 years of coding.

in microsoft's world, the technology is only going to change when they've over complicated .NET, much like they've done with MFC.  Whatever technology allows me to keep a 6 figure income is the one I'll be using, whether it be C#, or PHP, or Java or assembly.  all programming technologies basically work the same, so its just a matter of learning the nuances of that technology and how it exploits hardware better than others.

13 (edited by zaher 2007-01-29 14:18)

Re: php + .net = greatness

Mixing, Free and Non free it is not good idea PHP and .NET, and what the useful behind that?

If i going with Microsoft i thing i will with her language C# not warping over it with PHP or Delphi.NET, that make to guarantee with more years support my code.

Let us return to the free and open source, Here in Syria, Microsoft products are very very expensive, and we all use cracked ones because can not Buy and Can not Pay (Black listed tongue ), so if i want to be honest i must pay or choose open source products, and that my plan for 10 past years ago, and there is one thing i must leave it, it is Windows, after that my choices shrinks to Mono, PHP, Linux.

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

14

Re: php + .net = greatness

zaher, for the net, I like PHP and for the desktop, I like XUL after using Komodo for the last year.

MadHatter, 6 figure incomes are hard to sustain over time, no matter how well you keep up with technology.

Re: php + .net = greatness

.net is and always has been free.  its source code is also slightly open (meaning you can download it and use it to write your own .net framework much like portable .net and mono have, you just cant use its source code directly like other open source frameworks...  not that many people have included portions of python, apache or php into their own frameworks unrelated to those products).

I still prefer to use php for web development though, which is why i think this is cool.

16 (edited by zaher 2007-01-29 16:36)

Re: php + .net = greatness

Nop, .net not free because you can not use it without Windows smile .
My Friend start to discover the XUL...

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

Re: php + .net = greatness

theres a difference between platform independence and free.  there are no fees involved with downloading the framework, sdk, or source code.  .net can be compiled against free bsd out of the box, so I'd say it is sort of multi platformed. plus both .net and mono are built against the ecma specification for the language and are pretty inter-operable.   I think I read an article somewhere where the guy leading development of the gnome desktop was moving development efforts to C# using mono, so thats 2 completely different operating systems (or 1 operating system and one desktop environment) using it.

18

Re: php + .net = greatness

MadHatter, i think we need another 10 years to take a decision about this case smile , before 10 years (or more) i was make discusses about Java and Delphi with my coworker, but now Delphi dead and many of languages was born.

I can wait, if my age allow me to do that tongue

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

Re: php + .net = greatness

MadHatter wrote:

because they brought in anders hejlsberg (the creator of Delphi) to create it for them.  .NET is actually something they did right IMO.  using mono you can develop for nix and windows.  If I'm not mistaken, gnome is using mono for their development (I could be wrong about this one though).

.net lets you create language extensions for it so that you can write .net apps in python, C#, vb, C++, perl, fortran, and a ton of other languages.  the cool thing about this is, that it allows you to use the php framework, and .net framework however you wish.

being able to write a file saying:

using ( StreamWriter sw = new StreamWriter("foo.txt") ) {
    s.Write("blah");
}

as opposed to:

$fh = fopen("text", "a");
fwrite($fh, "blah");
fclose($fh);

is just one of the ways that they've taken what we've all been doing since the 60's and made it easier to write, override, and manipulate.

Unfortunatly java did it first, and better. Java's libraries actually make sense and don't look like they have been organized by a group of retarded monkies. :\, Anything .NET can do java can reproduce faster, and more efficiently. You still cannot find a truely cross-platform JIT for .NET, whether you think mono works or not.

I enjoy pie :)

Re: php + .net = greatness

Mediator wrote:

Unfortunatly java did it first, and better. Java's libraries actually make sense and don't look like they have been organized by a group of retarded monkies. :\, Anything .NET can do java can reproduce faster, and more efficiently. You still cannot find a truely cross-platform JIT for .NET, whether you think mono works or not.

I agree to some degree, but the fact remains, I have yet to encounter a Java application that doesn't feel sluggish or consumes lots and lots of memory. The fact that the UI never really matches the operating system on which it is running doesn't help. Java works fine for server applications, but it's not quite there when it comes to desktop apps.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

21

Re: php + .net = greatness

There is a old reason for not Choosing Java
- Java not support RTL languages (my Arabic) Delphi do it.
.NET is from Microsoft and it is the best supporting multi languages special for Arabs smile

- My customer like .NET system (Ask them why), because it is the new thing from Microsoft nothing else, so i have plan to make scripts or code for 2 languages (.NET and MONO) and provide it to my customer as .NET application.

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

Re: php + .net = greatness

Rickard wrote:
Mediator wrote:

Unfortunatly java did it first, and better. Java's libraries actually make sense and don't look like they have been organized by a group of retarded monkies. :\, Anything .NET can do java can reproduce faster, and more efficiently. You still cannot find a truely cross-platform JIT for .NET, whether you think mono works or not.

I agree to some degree, but the fact remains, I have yet to encounter a Java application that doesn't feel sluggish or consumes lots and lots of memory. The fact that the UI never really matches the operating system on which it is running doesn't help. Java works fine for server applications, but it's not quite there when it comes to desktop apps.

Well swing and swt both use the local operating sytems system calls to render its widgets. As for slow UI's a lot falls into the hands of the developer (as it is for any language). Take Azureus for example its UI runs at the same pace as any other windows application, because it was developed right


zaher wrote:

There is a old reason for not Choosing Java
- Java not support RTL languages (my Arabic) Delphi do it.
.NET is from Microsoft and it is the best supporting multi languages special for Arabs

- My customer like .NET system (Ask them why), because it is the new thing from Microsoft nothing else, so i have plan to make scripts or code for 2 languages (.NET and MONO) and provide it to my customer as .NET application.

Java supports locals better than .NET does. Swing can easily load arabic language packs.

I enjoy pie :)

23

Re: php + .net = greatness

Yes for that i said "is a old reason" wink , but now i must start from zero and must re choose again.

If your people come crazy, you will not need to your mind any more.

24

Re: php + .net = greatness

zaher wrote:

but now i must start from zero and must re choose again.

Hey, chin up smile

I've done it many times, had to re-tool for a new generation of silicone. It gets easier over time, because you don't become an expert at any one thing, you skim the surface so to speak. Learn enough to get by, to do your job, but don't sink too deep or else, you're digging yourself out again.

Re: php + .net = greatness

Mediator wrote:

Well swing and swt both use the local operating sytems system calls to render its widgets.

This doesn't look like local operating system widgets to me. Look at the tabs and the status bar. Eclipse suffers from the same oddities.

Mediator wrote:

As for slow UI's a lot falls into the hands of the developer (as it is for any language). Take Azureus for example its UI runs at the same pace as any other windows application, because it was developed right

That's funny. I was going to mention Azureus as an app that is such a resource hog, it is virtually unusable. The fact that its UI suffers from a bad case of "programmers art" doesn't help. I mean, come on, look at this.

I just started it up and for fun with an empty queue (no uploads or download):

MacPro:~ Rickard$ ps -ux | grep Azureus
Rickard  3890   0.1 -2.6   725872  54896  ??  S    11:56AM   0:07.07 /Applications/Azureus.app/Contents/MacOS/JavaApplicationStub -psn_0_65536001
Rickard  3947   0.0 -0.0    18056    292  p1  R+   11:59AM   0:00.00 grep Azureus

The sixth column is RSS (resident set size in kilobytes) which is what we're interested in. 54896 kilobytes for a torrent client? I fired up uTorrent in Parallels just to compare and it consumes only 4450 kilobytes. Now granted, Azureus has more features, but still.

I don't want to start a pissing contest, but I just don't see Java as a feasible client application development platform right now. When someone can trick me into running a Java app for some time without noticing it, maybe I'll change my mind.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."