Topic: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

I'm legalterate... erm... I can't understand legel consequences 0.o or say it... lol

Anywho, I'm planing on making some php based web games. They will probably fall under a new "class" of copyright, which basically says I own the source for a max of 5 years, then the source is public domain. The idea is that I still retain the commercial benefits of good R&D, without forcing the world to reinvent the wheel. While making these games I've noticed that I use some technics from punbb's code. For example I have a config.php file, I also have a "define('NAME', 1);" and "if (! (defined(NAME))) exit();" at the top of php files and includes respectively. I think it's quite clear, from the code, that this is not a "copy and paste" case. Also, it would require some silly reworking to avoid doing this stuff. I'm just wondering what other people's thought are.

To be clear, this is not another forum I'm working on, and in any complex coding area, I've used my own code (ie: for "sessions", or for "login" nothing is the same; apart from having a session id, and a time until that session expires tongue). Does this fall into the category of M$ ~stealing~ icons from Mac... in which case... um... I copyright the word "the"! Muhahahaha, pay me monies!!! Does this fall into the catagory of M$ ~stealing~ "My Computer" (from Mac), or IE ~stealing~ "tab browsing" from firefox? In which case... you can't really claim that punbb has topics, so punbb can't have topics tongue Or is it more like the theoretical case where M$ copies the gcc source to improve their own compiler? In which case... you can't really copy and paste 10% of another projects code and call it your own.

echo "deadram"; echo; fortune;

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

It's GPL, do whatever you bloody well want with it. And there's nothing wrong with using a config.php, about everyone does it I think tongue

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

If yo use PunBB's code, it has to be GPL too. That means, among other things, that if you distribute your application, you have to distribute the sources too, and right to edit and redistribute them.

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

there was only 1 original idea, everything else has copied that.

most programming follows the same type of logic.  if you line for line copy punbb, then you have to abide by punbb's license.  if you learn from what rickard has done and apply his style of coding to your code base then its not his software but your own.

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

Meh, just wanted to make sure. I personally hate the idea of keeping my code private (even if it's just for X years), but I have to get a job, and I don't want to work wink I code in my free time... so writing code wouldn't really be work. Now if I could only learn to draw, and write story lines smile

echo "deadram"; echo; fortune;

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

there is nothing wrong with proprietary code (not that you can really hide the php like you can compiled executables).

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

MadHatter wrote:

there is nothing wrong with proprietary code (not that you can really hide the php like you can compiled executables).

Erm... (Mac HW+Software = proprietary) == reinvent the PC (IBM made this HW public source, for the most part at least), reinvent windows, reinvent Xorg; Proprietary means that the R&D resources used up to create a product have to be repeated for each additional group entering into production of said good.

If car designs were no longer proprietary, the cost of a car would be the cost of the physical resources used in it's production and the cost of the time & expertise resources used to produce the car.
At the moment car designed are proprietary, the cost of a car is the price a person is willing to pay for said car, usually much higher then the cost of production.

To prove this is true... The cost of a pair of socks are the cost of the physical resources used in it's production and the cost of the time & expertise resources used to produce the pair of socks. (designer socks are excluded, of course tongue)

I would prefer that the cost of socks, a car etc.. also include the cost to replace the raw resources taken from the environment (metals take thousands of year to get compressed into metal, although I admit I don't know the full details), the cost of the use of said product to the environment (gas is not good for the atmosphere), and the cost to recycle or dispose of the car once it's no longer in use (some of the metal can be recycled, other parts, like the fiberglass, or parts that have high exposure to certain chemicals cannot be recycled).

Not trying to be a tree hugging hippy. I just don't think the moon base will be set-up in time for the coming ice age, and I'd like to be a great, great, great, grandfather some day (even if I'm dead).

echo "deadram"; echo; fortune;

8 (edited by MadHatter 2007-02-23 21:08)

Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

deadram wrote:
MadHatter wrote:

there is nothing wrong with proprietary code (not that you can really hide the php like you can compiled executables).

Erm... (Mac HW+Software = proprietary) == reinvent the PC (IBM made this HW public source, for the most part at least), reinvent windows, reinvent Xorg; Proprietary means that the R&D resources used up to create a product have to be repeated for each additional group entering into production of said good.

no, I think you misunderstand the use of that word:

  Proprietary \Pro*pri"e*ta*ry\, n.; pl. Proprietaries. [L.
     proprietarius: cf. F. propri['e]taire. See Propriety, and
     cf. Proprietor.]
     1. A proprietor or owner; one who has exclusive title to a
        thing; one who possesses, or holds the title to, a thing
        in his own right. --Fuller.
        [1913 Webster]
  
     2. A body proprietors, taken collectively.
        [1913 Webster]
  
     3. (Eccl.) A monk who had reserved goods and effects to
        himself, notwithstanding his renunciation of all at the
        time of profession.
        [1913 Webster]

proprietary means you own the exclusive rights to the source code. the computer has been around since atleast WWII.  nobody re-invented the computer, they re-made it (and did so in complete ignorance of the existence of the computer invented to crack the enigma code back then).  xorg did not invent windowing, they remade it.  point of the matter is: you don't need source code, schematics, blue prints, specifications, use cases, uml or any other modeling <thing> to copy something.  the little gray thing between your ears is all you need.

beyond this, I'm not even going to touch what you've said, because I hate economics, but understand how these things work.  R&D, architecture, and anything else that has to be done, does not typically impact the cost of goods as the actual production of it.  people are the biggest liability in manufacturing (or software engineering) because we make mistakes.  Have you not ever read about the industrial revolution?  there is a reason things are automated.  when you remove people from production, you not only save money (which is passed on to the consumer) but you save costs involved with defect management.    if you have an automobile manufacturer who produces 10 cars a day using 500 employees, the price of that car is (in its most basic of terms) the cost of 500 employees times the number of hours spent building it.  I can assure you that that cost is going to exceed the architect who drew the plans for the auto on a computer.  now, you remove 495 of those employees, you now have 495 people who no longer have any income, cannot buy bread, let alone a vehicle, and are able to produce 500 automobiles a day.  the problem is, you now have a surplus of goods, and nobody to buy them.

fact is, there are no groups around today who do not use some form of currency.  this means that the basis of life must revolve around obtaining that form of currency (be it money, cows, crops or whatever).  how well would you be able to sustain life as a cow farmer if you open sourced your cattle?  anyone is free to come take your livestock, and all you ask is for a non-compulsory donation.

there is nothing wrong with proprietary software because chances are, its not going to be some new concept like quantum physics that nobody else is going to figure out how to do.  meanwhile you're able to participate in your environment because it enables you to obtain some form of "currency" because you have what somebody needs (like the cows) and cannot provide for themselves.


I'd love to live in a world where everybody serves everyone else without pay, but I'm also a realist, and understand that thats not going to happen in my lifetime.

my profession is software engineering.  I also maintain multiple open source projects, and participate by publishing things about software engineering that I find interesting (feel free to check my blog).  I definitely believe in charging for software, owning source code that I do not ever publish.  I also believe in sharing (open source is how I got into this field).  there is absolutely nothing wrong with either IMO.

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Re: Future work simular to punbb; Code stealing or not?

MadHatter wrote:

I'd love to live in a world where everybody serves everyone else without pay, but I'm also a realist, and understand that thats not going to happen in my lifetime.

Must remove the Ego gland from the human species wink

There are countries moving away from commercialism, because in all honesty, we can't all have a big house and 2.5 cars in the driveway, the planet doesn't have the resources. It's funny how the U.S. wants capitalism to catch on world wide but imagine if all the Chinese wanted a Wii tomorrow, impossible to fill the order.