1 (edited by Skye 2004-04-03 18:31)

Topic: Couple Suggestions

This is by far the best, lite-weight forum system I've found to date. I am aware of your goals and your reasons for making this system as I've read most everything you have on the page, asside from countless forum posts. I'm just suggesting a couple things that I think will be very useful.

User Profile: Can you make the User Profile editor more like the AdminCP? Right now that's my largest gripe with your system. It's a long, unordered list of elements. Otherwise, excellent work. I love this thing. The only real competitor is MiniBB, and you have them beat hands down with your clean, easy to navigate style.

Private Messages: I understand that you don't want to add bloat by adding the personal messaging system, but these days I feel that is an essential thing on any forum system. I see that PunBB++ has this, and I don't see much of a difference in package size or package simplicity. In fact, in a few ways PunBB++ simply is better.

Stylesheet Editor: I know there was already a suggestion for a skin editor and it was shot down by the fact that people would need to chmod the folder to allow write access. I think that it'd be great to have a css style generator, where the user can select colors, and font types, keeping it as simple as you can, and then output the stylesheet like you do for install.php. It simply throws out the config file into a text area and has instructions to upload it as config.php. Perhaps you can do something to this effect in PunBB.

Media-Specific stylesheets: It would be really cool if you could make stylesheets for a celluar phone or internet enables PDA's. You can use the stylesheet media="" declaration. It would be really easy. Though, PunBB may already be lite-weight enough to be viewed in these devices well.

File Structure Cleanup: I think it would be a great idea to cleanup the file structure. You could easily do this by moving all of the admin files to say /admin and the functions to say /sources or /functions. It would be a lot better in the end and ensure that the system does not become overly hard to modify in the future since files will be placed in a structure that is both common sense and easy to understand.

I have far more suggestions that would offer great things for PunBB and not add much weight.

2 (edited by Jansson 2004-04-03 20:26)

Re: Couple Suggestions

Wow, that's a couple of good suggestions :)

Btw, welcome to the forum ;)

3

Re: Couple Suggestions

I agree with pretty much all of those.. smile

4 (edited by Skye 2004-04-04 01:16)

Re: Couple Suggestions

Jansson wrote:

Wow, that's a couple of good suggestions smile

Btw, welcome to the forum wink

Andy wrote:

I agree with pretty much all of those.. smile

Well, I am glad that the two of you like them. I've got more where those came from. smile One of these days I need to take my skills and put them to good use and do exactly what Rickard Andersson has done. Build my own forum system, improve it, maybe not even release it initially, probably just use it as a custom forum system for my own site until it's mature enough to be released.

Re: Couple Suggestions

Skye wrote:

This is by far the best, lite-weight forum system I've found to date. I am aware of your goals and your reasons for making this system as I've read most everything you have on the page, asside from countless forum posts. I'm just suggesting a couple things that I think will be very useful.

Thank you. Suggestions are always welcome.

Skye wrote:

User Profile: Can you make the User Profile editor more like the AdminCP? Right now that's my largest gripe with your system. It's a long, unordered list of elements.

I kind of like it the way it is now. Sure, it's beginning to be a bit long, but I'm not sure dividing it up into e.g. three or four pages would make it any better. I like it the way it is now because doing common tasks such as modifying the signature doesn't involve finding the right "sub page" in the profile. I click profile and it's right there.

Skye wrote:

Private Messages: I understand that you don't want to add bloat by adding the personal messaging system, but these days I feel that is an essential thing on any forum system. I see that PunBB++ has this, and I don't see much of a difference in package size or package simplicity. In fact, in a few ways PunBB++ simply is better.

Ok, here's the thing. I could add chacmools mod into the next release. After that, someone will tell me that they feel attachment support is equally "essential" these days and then I will add that as well. Then, all of a sudden, PunBB will be identical to every other bulletin board software out there. I'm not kidding here. Giving PunBB more features actually makes it less attractive. If PunBB had the same amount of features as e.g. Invision Power Board, why the hell would anyone want to use PunBB?

That said, I'm considering adding chacmool's PM mod, but I haven't decided yet. I have to take a much closer look at it before I make my decision.

Skye wrote:

Stylesheet Editor: I know there was already a suggestion for a skin editor and it was shot down by the fact that people would need to chmod the folder to allow write access. I think that it'd be great to have a css style generator, where the user can select colors, and font types, keeping it as simple as you can, and then output the stylesheet like you do for install.php. It simply throws out the config file into a text area and has instructions to upload it as config.php. Perhaps you can do something to this effect in PunBB.

Sure. I would love to have such a tool. I don't think it should be part of PunBB though. It should be a separate download. Maybe Cactuz should make a tool for Punres? :D

Skye wrote:

Media-Specific stylesheets: It would be really cool if you could make stylesheets for a celluar phone or internet enables PDA's. You can use the stylesheet media="" declaration. It would be really easy. Though, PunBB may already be lite-weight enough to be viewed in these devices well.

I know absolutely nothing at all about that whole industry, but if adding that media attribute helps in any way, sure. What does it do actually?

Skye wrote:

File Structure Cleanup: I think it would be a great idea to cleanup the file structure. You could easily do this by moving all of the admin files to say /admin and the functions to say /sources or /functions. It would be a lot better in the end and ensure that the system does not become overly hard to modify in the future since files will be placed in a structure that is both common sense and easy to understand.

True. There are a few things I would also like to change, but I would definately keep the admin scripts in the root as they are now. The idea behind the current layout is that files that are accessed directly are in the root and files that are included from those files are in the include directory.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

6 (edited by Paul 2004-04-04 20:21)

Re: Couple Suggestions

The Style Sheet Maker would be easy. Just create a template like main.tpl only make it a css file rather than a web page. Something like punconright {<mergehere>} etc. Create a web form to enter appropriate values and then merge to a file which can be previewed and downloaded.

As for private messaging. I have never understood its purpose. A BBS should be either for providing an information resource or for building a community. Either way PM seems to defeat the whole object. If people realy want to communicate privately, send an email.

7 (edited by Skye 2004-04-05 00:18)

Re: Couple Suggestions

Rickard wrote:

Thank you. Suggestions are always welcome.

Your welcome. smile

Rickard wrote:

I kind of like it the way it is now. Sure, it's beginning to be a bit long, but I'm not sure dividing it up into e.g. three or four pages would make it any better. I like it the way it is now because doing common tasks such as modifying the signature doesn't involve finding the right "sub page" in the profile. I click profile and it's right there.

I agree that it looks ok how it is, but if you think searching for the word "Signature Controls" or "Signature" inside of UserCP or "My Preferences" is by any means hard, then please think a little bit more on the subject. That is by no means an insult, so please don't take it the wrong way.

Rickard wrote:

Ok, here's the thing. I could add chacmools mod into the next release. After that, someone will tell me that they feel attachment support is equally "essential" these days and then I will add that as well. Then, all of a sudden, PunBB will be identical to every other bulletin board software out there. I'm not kidding here. Giving PunBB more features actually makes it less attractive. If PunBB had the same amount of features as e.g. Invision Power Board, why the hell would anyone want to use PunBB?

That said, I'm considering adding chacmool's PM mod, but I haven't decided yet. I have to take a much closer look at it before I make my decision.

Alright, I'll agree on that point. It's a very valid one at that. I do know how that works. People always want what they can't have. And I do think that if you're not going to add it, then I'm happy that there is a modification. Personally, I don't use Personal Messaging on forums except to notify members individually of offenses to the forum rules or to further help them, if it becomes like one of those topics where it's just you replying to each other, in essence an Instant Messenger chat.

Drawing the line is a good thing. You need to draw a line and say, "This is what PunBB is, this is what your feature is" and explain why you won't be implementing that. You cannot prevent people from wanting, however, you can draw the line and say it won't be done. I like that you have such a clear vision of what PunBB should be so early in the game. smile

Rickard wrote:

Sure. I would love to have such a tool. I don't think it should be part of PunBB though. It should be a separate download. Maybe Cactuz should make a tool for Punres? big_smile

Yes, it would be very easy to do.

Just make an xml file or even a tpl file and have a php script insert the code where it should be. smile

Rickard wrote:

I know absolutely nothing at all about that whole industry, but if adding that media attribute helps in any way, sure. What does it do actually?

It's really one of the newer crazes out there for enthusiest web developers to claim that their site is "Totally Standards Compliant," so that people on all media's can view the site. The most popular type is obviously "media="print"" which in essence makes a printer friendly version of the page, simply by hitting the print button in any modern browser. The reason this works is the browser identifies the media as a printer, so if you declare a css stylesheet for that media, it will use it when it's requested by the device. The same applies for PDA, using the media="handheld." The same goes for media="screen," which by the way is what your common web browser would use. Though, be careful about the "just if it helps" part. Keep in mind these are different types of devices and you need to modify the stylesheets accordingly. So, before you implement any of them, read up on them. Most likely, the only one you need are:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="OxygenScreen.css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="handheld" href="OxygenHandheld.css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="print" href="OxygenPrint.css" />
All of the possible declarations for media="" are as follows. wrote:

all    
Suitable/intended for all devises (default).

aural    
Intended for speech synthesizers.

braille    
Intended for braille tactile feedback devices.

embossed
Intended for paged braille printers.

handheld    
Intended for handheld devices (typically small screen, monochrome, limited bandwidth).

print    
Intended for printed documents (applies to docs viewed in print preview mode too).

projection
Intended for projected presentations (ie: projectors or print to transparencies).

screen
Intended for computer screens.

tty
Intended for media using a fixed-pitch character grid (ie: teletypes or terminals).

tv
Intended for television-type devices.

Rickard wrote:

True. There are a few things I would also like to change, but I would definately keep the admin scripts in the root as they are now. The idea behind the current layout is that files that are accessed directly are in the root and files that are included from those files are in the include directory.

I don't agree with the admin pages thing. I think that they'd be better off in /sources/admin.

8 (edited by madjedo 2004-04-05 08:36)

Re: Couple Suggestions

I liked his ideaz anyway...

9

Re: Couple Suggestions

madjedo wrote:

I liked his ideaz anyway...

Thanks. smile

Re: Couple Suggestions

Skye wrote:

I agree that it looks ok how it is, but if you think searching for the word "Signature Controls" or "Signature" inside of UserCP or "My Preferences" is by any means hard, then please think a little bit more on the subject.

I didn't mean it would be hard to find, I meant it would involve more actions on my part to e.g. edit my signature. One of my biggest gripes with vBulletin (I'm an admin in a swedish vB forum) is the fact that doing something simple like removing an image from a users signature involves a lot of work. You have to login into the admin interface, search for the user, select the user from a list of hits and then edit the signature. In PunBB I would just click the username and edit the signature.

Skye wrote:

Drawing the line is a good thing. You need to draw a line and say, "This is what PunBB is, this is what your feature is" and explain why you won't be implementing that. You cannot prevent people from wanting, however, you can draw the line and say it won't be done. I like that you have such a clear vision of what PunBB should be so early in the game. :)

Sticking to that "vision" is harder than one might think. However, as I noted in my previous post, I haven't decided yet. There's still hope :D

Skye wrote:

I don't agree with the admin pages thing. I think that they'd be better off in /sources/admin.

Well, I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that.

I will add the stylesheet thing to the todo list. Paul, the guy who wrote the skinning guide, is currently working on improving the whole CSS layout for PunBB 1.2. No big changes, but he's been able to eliminate a few nested tables and a few other annoyances. I will notify him of this topic as well.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

11

Re: Couple Suggestions

There may be a hidden benefit to have a stylesheet generator. It will enable the stylesheet to be optimised and therefore smaller because it will not have to be easy for less experienced users to follow.

12

Re: Couple Suggestions

How about having punBb in a "feature freeze", and if someone wants something else, just directing them to the appropriate mod..?

Just distributing punBB as a "base" so to speak, and then having a nice database of modifications that a user can add, would be good smile (which is basically what it is now..)

Re: Couple Suggestions

Rickard: Are you going to write a stylesheet generator or did I interpret your post all wrong? =)

Re: Couple Suggestions

I'm not planning on it no. However, I would wait for 1.2 anyway. The stylesheet in 1.2 will most likely look nothing like the current ones.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

15 (edited by Dave 2005-02-02 02:00)

Re: Couple Suggestions

Rickard wrote:

Ok, here's the thing. I could add chacmools mod into the next release. After that, someone will tell me that they feel attachment support is equally "essential" these days and then I will add that as well. Then, all of a sudden, PunBB will be identical to every other bulletin board software out there. I'm not kidding here. Giving PunBB more features actually makes it less attractive. If PunBB had the same amount of features as e.g. Invision Power Board, why the hell would anyone want to use PunBB?

That said, I'm considering adding chacmool's PM mod, but I haven't decided yet. I have to take a much closer look at it before I make my decision.

Truth be told, this is so far one of the only things keeping me from switching my forum from Invision Board to Punbb. I really love the speed and simplicity of Punbb, but the lack of instant messaging is kind of keeping me back. However, I'm also not really sure how much it gets used on my forum. I just don't want to hear them complain when they find out it's not there. I'm going to post and find out how much it gets used.

Re: Couple Suggestions

hmm this is a rather old topic and there has been alot more recent discussion about the Poll, PM and attachment mods

Re: Couple Suggestions

Please don't add PM ! There is a mod, fine, but I don't wanna see PunBB bloated (this is bloat as it's not required, a PM should use mail IMHO) as it become more popular.

If you add PM, I'm pretty sure there will be some PunBB-light fork sad

18

Re: Couple Suggestions

Connorhd wrote:

hmm this is a rather old topic and there has been alot more recent discussion about the Poll, PM and attachment mods

i just kind of happened across it in a search, that's why i posted to it

19 (edited by Argyle 2005-02-02 17:48)

Re: Couple Suggestions

It has ever been said that PunBB does not want to include every stuff that other forums have, with the effect that they are really mighty, filled with hundreds of features which infact only some will ever use.

The reason for it not being in PunBB wasnt that PunBB is "not being developed that far yet", it was on purpose as far as i understood it. Thats the whole concept of this Forum
And you dont walk into a mans clothing store and ask for a handbag either, do you?


Im perfectly fine with it being some kind of plugin. I think thats a really good solution to the satisfaction of all.

My two pences wink



Oh, by the way, am i wrong or will modding get more and more difficult the bigger a forum software gets?

One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say.
~ Will Durant (1885 - 1981)

Re: Couple Suggestions

i'm going to close this topic there are loads of posts/topics about this and frankly its getting boring