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Topic: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsservers … fault.mspx

Its a load of bs if you ask me. If you know what you as an adminstrator are doing, the overal cost of linux and opensource programs is a lot cheaper.

Lets not forget that opensource requires companies to reveal everything in their code, so there is no question of stolen code, it can all be seen. On the same note, because the code is so visible, and that everyone has access to it, the likely hood of a windows style, nazi pathing era will not occure. Why? Because you have so many people looking at the code, that if something is wrong, the community will be identified imediatly, and a solution will surface.

Your views?

Do, or do not.

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

The Operating Systems war is over, Unix won.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Dude, that quote kicks, yet so true.

Do, or do not.

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

zc923: If you want a real discussion, please be more specific to what you disagree with. If you actually read the white papers you will see that it is not all black and white. In the Forrester white paper it says: "Linux, and other open source software can provide big benefits to the organization, however, companies need to know what to expect, and plan appropriately to mitigate these concerns." So it is not a question of what is always the right choice; Linux or Windows, but rather when to choose what. And these studies shows that on average windows comes out on to more often than Linux. I would also like to point out that these are independent non-commissioned studies.
As to having a lot of people looking at the code to find flaws, I totally agree, the questions is; how many people are working fulltime on Linux? As part of the Trustworthy Computing initiative, Microsoft spent more than $200 million training more than 13,000 Windows Division employees on security-focused development techniques and new engineering process, resulting in a line-by-line security review of Windows Server 2003.


This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

"Linux is only free if your time has no value"

CodeDuck wrote:

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Is that a required disclaimer for Microsoft employees? big_smile

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Rickard wrote:

Is that a required disclaimer for Microsoft employees? big_smile

Yes it is, and let me also point out that views expressed in this forum are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

hcgtv wrote:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

Actually I find that that quote fits better with linux wannabees, that first find linux, and deletes everything related to windows (ignore), then they say everything is better and that shitty thing M$ did was just rubbish, how can they do that funny OS, stealing everything etc. (laugh at), then they start putting forward all sort of information, not always true, or at least from questionable sources, just to prove they have the best OS (fight)... big_smile

To me, every OS has it's points (ok, not HP's unix wink)... first figure out what to do, then later figure out what to use... I actually only started using linux after I felt the webserver needed it...

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

CodeDuck wrote:
Rickard wrote:

Is that a required disclaimer for Microsoft employees? big_smile

Yes it is, and let me also point out that views expressed in this forum are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

Wow. I was actually kidding smile Didn't mean to imply that your response was in any way biased. I agree with you 100%.

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Frank H wrote:

To me, every OS has it's points (ok, not HP's unix wink)... first figure out what to do, then later figure out what to use... I actually only started using linux after I felt the webserver needed it...

That's the best advice in today's world.

Don't be a OS zealot but be wise enough to see the writing on the wall. If you decide to make a career in IT and you ignore the Unixes, then start practicing saying "You want fries with that?".

Windows will always be around, the install base is huge but it's reached it's Zenith. WindowsXP was a bit late to the party and Longhorn has been stuck in traffic.

IBM just announced Linux across all processor lines, Apple is making inroads with OSX and the major PC manufacturers have finally succumbed to bundling and supporting Linux.

On my home network I run:
Linux (Debian) - Web server, Workstation and file sharing
OpenBSD - Firewall
WindowsXP - Workstations

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Rickard wrote:
CodeDuck wrote:
Rickard wrote:

Is that a required disclaimer for Microsoft employees? big_smile

Yes it is, and let me also point out that views expressed in this forum are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

Wow. I was actually kidding smile Didn't mean to imply that your response was in any way biased. I agree with you 100%.

i'm going to assume he is saying this because of the rash of firings over blogs that have been popping up.

Hear from nine organizations, from seven countries?all leaders in their industries, who evaluated the facts about Windows and Linux and concluded that Windows is a more secure, reliable platform at a lower total cost of ownership than Linux.

BWAHAHAHA!!!!! this is a paid advertisement right?

~James
FluxBB - Less is more

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

CodeDuck wrote:

As to having a lot of people looking at the code to find flaws, I totally agree, the questions is; how many people are working fulltime on Linux? As part of the Trustworthy Computing initiative, Microsoft spent more than $200 million training more than 13,000 Windows Division employees on security-focused development techniques and new engineering process, resulting in a line-by-line security review of Windows Server 2003.


This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

That is regardless. Even with so many "Trained" personal reading through the codes, flaws exist. The cost it takes for Microsoft to do this is transfered to the user, who buys the product, and often times is frustrated by the cost to complexity ratio.

For Microsoft to openly critizse the opensource community is not only foolish, but uncalled for. If Microsoft has confidence behind their product, they do not need to create such a site. The fact that they have shows that a. they have begun loosing their ground, or b. they have lost contracts due to opensource.

I never said that Linux was 100% better then windows, how else could I play my games? From a server administrators perspective, the posibilities offered from Linux are infinite compared to other server OS, IMHO.

Another thing that seperates Linux from Microsoft is the fact that the basis behind Microsoft, as anyother business is commerical/corporate. Because no one owns Linux, the use of it only benifits the community.

Lets also face another fact, most companies who use, run, and stand behind linux are those who have contracts with the distubuters. Red Hat, SuSe, and so on.

Its also important to follow the trend setters, as IBM. They have been pushing foward with the battle cry of linux. If linux us truly a "waste of time", why is the most recognized tech company in the world supporting it?

No doubt that in some cases, Microsoft is better, but to say that Microsoft is always better, and Linux is just a time consuming, worthless pos is just plain stupid.

Do, or do not.

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

redhat has given me more trouble than windows ... there's a reason I run debian now (I even restarted the redhat server more often than when I had windows on it, so I had to remove it) wink
so ... different linux distros behave different aswell, one more factor that might put ppl off, even if the software is free, and based off the same stuff ... so comparing 'linux' vs. 'windows' isn't 100% comparable ... IMHO ... better compare distro vs windows version ...

(my redhat box slowed down until it stopped responding at all, with debian nothing like it has happened even once, so I take it as a pure redhat issue)

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Frank H, I've had the same experience.

Started off with Redhat, went through RPM hell, then switched to Debian.

I ran my Debian server headless for 2 years. Never did it crash or fail to reboot after a kernel change, flawless operation. It truly is the set it and forget it operating system.

So yes, we should compare distros to Windows versions. So I guess Debian is as reliable as NT 3.51 smile

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Slackware...

Do, or do not.

15 (edited by zc923 2005-02-18 10:15)

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Hate to double post, but...

The reason that microsoft made a page about its "supiriority" over linux is to avoid this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4276287.stm , from happening.

Do, or do not.

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Its worth remembering that Windows is still generally easier to operate for the "typical" user. Linux is brilliant for servers, but as a personal preference I wouldn't use it on a home computer. Windows still has the edge on usability.
Linux just isn't ready to replace Windows on most computers.

*prepares to get bashed*

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Andy: I agree. Linux on the desktop just isn't there yet. Then again, looking at MacOS X, neither is Windows really smile

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Well, the articles from microsoft mostly underline the the pro/cons of servers.

Granted, linux for the desktop is a long way from being fisherpriced as microsoft windows has. But with advancement in KDE, and Gnome, I think the GUi is becoming better then that of Windows. There are package issues, simmilar to old DLL hell on windows.

Do, or do not.

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Rickard wrote:

Andy: I agree. Linux on the desktop just isn't there yet. Then again, looking at MacOS X, neither is Windows really smile

Mac is pretty and stable, but hardly offers the plethora of applications that Windows does. smile

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Rickard wrote:

Andy: I agree. Linux on the desktop just isn't there yet. Then again, looking at MacOS X, neither is Windows really smile

Hehe... Couldn't have put it better myself!

Andy wrote:

Mac is pretty and stable, but hardly offers the plethora of applications that Windows does. smile

More != Better. Yes, there are more software applications available on Windows than for the Mac platform. But that's usually only a problem if one requires niche vertical market software packages (e.g., risk analysis for oil drilling). For most people, including power users, there are very few cases where equivalent (or better) software tools aren't available on Mac OS X.

It's also worthwhile to point out that, in my experience, the quality of Mac software applications is far superior to those developed  for the Windows world. Your mileage may vary. wink

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Andy wrote:

Mac is pretty and stable, but hardly offers the plethora of applications that Windows does. smile

Yes, I agree the applications for Windows are infinite compared to other O/S's but you can always keep a Windows box around for those moments when you need to run Emule wink

Honestly, this is what I run 95% of the time:
1. Terminal window
2. Email client
3. Web browser
4. File manager
5. Text editor
6. IM client

I think the reason we stick with Windows or OSX for a workstation is how much more polished the look and feel is. Linux has made much progress with fonts and window managers, but the pixel look just ain't there yet. It's a fry cry from the CDE days but one day, one day, it'll happen.

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

the reason i don't use linux is, in windows, i want to do something, i don't have a program for it, i google for it, i download it, i run it, its just not possible in linux (or at least not with my experience)

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Scourceforge it

Do, or do not.

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Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

Connor, I do the same on Debian.

1. I Google for what I want to do, foobar seems to be the program I need.
2. I go here to see if they have foobar for my testing distro: http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
3. apt-get install foobar

Re: Are they scared, or still trying to rip of the world?

but you can't just click on it and it installs i know typing in that command isn't hard but its a big jump from just running an installer