1 (edited by SuperMAG 2008-02-04 13:49)

Topic: Few Important Questions

1: Which one is Fastest ... 1.2 or 1.3

in my openion 1.3 but let the ones who created answer ...

2: (Proper extension support - Extend the functionality without touching a line of PunBB's PHP code. )

What does this realy means .. does it means that every extension you add it ... it does not change the orignal punbb files even a little .. if that ... then wawo thats cool ...

3: how much time remain untill this final bug free 1.3 is released .. (just asking)

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Re: Few Important Questions

1. I shouldn't think there's much in it from an end user's point of view, though presumably 1.3 has been optimised.
2. Yes, you will never need to edit PunBB's core files.
3. Presumably the developers have some sort of time-scale in mind. But essentially it'll be when all the known bugs are fixed and desired features added.

Re: Few Important Questions

thanks liquidat0r

but still waiting answer for any one who participated in creating both of it ...

i mean look

Current Features (1.2) ¶
Very fast loading. 
Light on web server resources. 
Not cluttered with unneeded features. 
Simple layout and design. 
Easy to administrate and moderate. 
Doesn't output huge, non-valid, HTML pages. 
Has source code you can read and understand. 
Download the latest stable version. 

Planned Enhancements (1.3-dev) ¶
New markup and CSS. 
Unicode (UTF-8) support. 
Improved accessibility for both Public and Administration pages. 
Administration interface gets language file support. 
Search engine optimized "Fancy URLs" via mod rewrite. 
Proper extension support - Extend the functionality without touching a line of PunBB's PHP code. 
New topic read marking system. 
Improved syndication - Feeds extended to include individual topics. Also feeds in the form of Atom and XML format. 
Support for Microformats - hCard and MicroID. 
Multiple moderator groups. 
Board search improved with MySQL Full-Text Search. 
Per-style templates - It will be possible to have one set of templates per style.

look at 1.2 features

Very fast loading.
Light on web server resources.
Doesn't output huge, non-valid, HTML pages.

does this mean that 1.3 dosent have that features or 1.3 is bitter in that features then 1.2

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Re: Few Important Questions

Well it says planned enhancements which means it will be all the good things about 1.2 plus the stuff mentioned for 1.3 smile

Re: Few Important Questions

1. We haven't done benchmarks, so we don't know. But yes, I would presume that any difference in speed isn't drastic.
2. Yes
3. When it's done

And as Jansson said, enhancements are just that: new features to enhance what we already have.

Re: Few Important Questions

thanks jasson and smartys for posting ...

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Re: Few Important Questions

Smartys wrote:

1. We haven't done benchmarks, so we don't know. But yes, I would presume that any difference in speed isn't drastic.

Well... Adding new features DOES cost time processing. Always. wink
I.e., the simple fact of changing way of construct requests (which permits further modifications with hooks) IS slower than a 'plain text' request, but the difference is indeed negligible.
Another one : use of url_rewriting IS time comsumming (rather an Apache's issue, as the process of a .htaccess is not optimized), but the feature itself is real great..

And last but most important : the entire 'hook system' (which is the major benefit of 1.3) IS slower than the old ugly 'mod system' (since the eval() function is one of the slowest function in PHP, as it is in C or others).

So each 'extension 1.3' will be slower than the corresponding 'mod 1.2' (by construction)...
Hope it "isn't drastic", as u said..

Re: Few Important Questions

so 1.2 is faster then 1.3 ...

ok can you compare the www.megapun.com vs Phpbb3 ... or phpbb3 vs 1.3

ohhhh i can realy deside what to use ....

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Re: Few Important Questions

why not try by yourself and chose the one that better suits you ?

Re: Few Important Questions

Mpok wrote:
Smartys wrote:

1. We haven't done benchmarks, so we don't know. But yes, I would presume that any difference in speed isn't drastic.

Well... Adding new features DOES cost time processing. Always. wink
I.e., the simple fact of changing way of construct requests (which permits further modifications with hooks) IS slower than a 'plain text' request, but the difference is indeed negligible.
Another one : use of url_rewriting IS time comsumming (rather an Apache's issue, as the process of a .htaccess is not optimized), but the feature itself is real great..

It sounds like you're talking about the SEF URL system in both those examples: that system should have little to no impact on people who choose not to use it.

Mpok wrote:

And last but most important : the entire 'hook system' (which is the major benefit of 1.3) IS slower than the old ugly 'mod system' (since the eval() function is one of the slowest function in PHP, as it is in C or others).

So each 'extension 1.3' will be slower than the corresponding 'mod 1.2' (by construction)...
Hope it "isn't drastic", as u said..

It's my understanding that the eval calls haven't been found to be extremely slow. If someone would like to benchmark them for comparison, they're welcome to do so. I played around with an alternate scheme in my head that would eliminate the eval calls, so if we find that eval calls are too slow we can try the other way.

Re: Few Important Questions

SuperMAG wrote:

so 1.2 is faster then 1.3 ...

Not necessarily.

SuperMAG wrote:

ok can you compare the www.megapun.com vs Phpbb3 ... or phpbb3 vs 1.3

I can't compare MegaPun, but what do you mean by "compare"? In terms of what>

Re: Few Important Questions

Smartys wrote:
SuperMAG wrote:

so 1.2 is faster then 1.3 ...

Not necessarily.

SuperMAG wrote:

ok can you compare the www.megapun.com vs Phpbb3 ... or phpbb3 vs 1.3

I can't compare MegaPun, but what do you mean by "compare"? In terms of what>

Speed
Quality
SEF
Features avaliable

etc

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Re: Few Important Questions

Without Extensions (branches_punbb-1[1].3-dev-r1478)

checked every one of them 5 to 10 times before telling the finial result


index.php [ Generated in 0.009 seconds, 10 queries executed ]

Punbb Beta Test Forum [ Generated in 0.011 seconds, 6 queries executed ]

Test post [ Generated in 0.016 seconds, 7 queries executed ]

Profile [ Generated in 0.020 seconds, 5 queries executed ]

Search [ Generated in 0.014 seconds, 5 queries executed ]


Now Installing Extensions

following extensions will be installed

-Browser and OS icons v1.0
-Easy Profile Fields v2.0.2
-Last Post Subject on Forum Index v1.0
-reCaptcha v0.1
-Smiley List v1.1.1

with extensions

index.php [ Generated in 0.011 seconds, 10 queries executed ]

Punbb Beta Test Forum [ Generated in 0.013 seconds, 6 queries executed ]

Test post [ Generated in 0.019 seconds, 7 queries executed ]

Profile [ Generated in 0.022 seconds, 5 queries executed ]

Search [ Generated in 0.016 seconds, 5 queries executed ]




Mpok wrote:
Smartys wrote:

1. We haven't done benchmarks, so we don't know. But yes, I would presume that any difference in speed isn't drastic.

Well... Adding new features DOES cost time processing. Always. wink
I.e., the simple fact of changing way of construct requests (which permits further modifications with hooks) IS slower than a 'plain text' request, but the difference is indeed negligible.
Another one : use of url_rewriting IS time comsumming (rather an Apache's issue, as the process of a .htaccess is not optimized), but the feature itself is real great..

And last but most important : the entire 'hook system' (which is the major benefit of 1.3) IS slower than the old ugly 'mod system' (since the eval() function is one of the slowest function in PHP, as it is in C or others).

So each 'extension 1.3' will be slower than the corresponding 'mod 1.2' (by construction)...
Hope it "isn't drastic", as u said..

judging of what you said is correct .... if a little extensions like this effect that much i wonder how will the big ones react ... it also efftect the speed of page which is not even envolved in that extensions like search and profile pages

will test the 1.2 later ... i am tired now

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Re: Few Important Questions

I don't call a few milliseconds alot hmm

15

Re: Few Important Questions

They are also fairly meaningless figures. What actually matters is the time it takes from hitting a link or button to the time the finished page ends up loaded into your browser and thats normally a matter of perception rather than measured speed.

16

Re: Few Important Questions

firefox has an addon like this, as you click the link it starts a timer, as the page stops loading Eveything it stops...

Sorry. Unactive due to personal life.

17

Re: Few Important Questions

Concerning speed :
As elbekko and Paul mentioned it, it's not a big issue (as far as the extension itself is well done), and i didn't mean to say that...
And i'm not saying i'm against the 'extension system', on the contrary i'm thinking it's the best improvement of the 1.3.
BUT i reaffirm it WILL be slower (than mods), it's automatic, you can't get rid of that.

Smartys wrote:

If someone would like to benchmark them for comparison, they're welcome to do so.

Well, it's rather easy to test : write just a couple lines in php (try i.e an array declaration and fill it with some random data), measure execution time, then embed the previous lines in an eval() and compare..

Re: Few Important Questions

ok  .... lets go back to beta and bugs related ... and also making new extensions for 1.3

by the way ... i was told that url rewriting dublicate urls will be fixed ... still now with the latest dev .. its not fixed ...

and also when you add simbols in topic title like`!$#%#%^$&(*?{"}_
the url becomes totaly broken ,,,, its not fixed either ,,,

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Re: Few Important Questions

Mpok: That's not a measure of how the extension system slows things down though: you would want to measure PunBB pages both with hooks being used and without hooks being used.
SuperMAG: Those benchmarks mean very little. The scripts were .002 seconds slower. And you slowed them down using extensions that may or may not be efficient in the first place. And you didn't compare that to a 1.2 install of similar modifications. And how did you arrive at those final page generation times?

Re: Few Important Questions

SuperMAG wrote:

ok  .... lets go back to beta and bugs related ... and also making new extensions for 1.3

by the way ... i was told that url rewriting dublicate urls will be fixed ... still now with the latest dev .. its not fixed ...

Yes. Will be. That means in the future, not right now. Now be patient.

SuperMAG wrote:

and also when you add simbols in topic title like`!$#%#%^$&(*?{"}_
the url becomes totaly broken ,,,, its not fixed either ,,,

Yes. We know. This isn't the first time it has been pointed out. We're considering ways to improve how characters are dealt with without compromising the usefulness of the titles for languages other than English. If you have any suggestions other then "fix it now!!!" I'd love to hear them.

Re: Few Important Questions

SuperMAG wrote:

and also when you add simbols in topic title like`!$#%#%^$&(*?{"}_
the url becomes totaly broken ,,,, its not fixed either ,,,

Smartys wrote:

Yes. We know. This isn't the first time it has been pointed out. We're considering ways to improve how characters are dealt with without compromising the usefulness of the titles for languages other than English. If you have any suggestions other then "fix it now!!!" I'd love to hear them.

ha ha ha ... no ... not realy ... i am not a coder ...

thanks guys

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